From the Yellow Chair
From the Yellow Chair
Beyond the Algorithm: Marketing That Doesn’t Bow to Google
Feeling trapped in the Google advertising hamster wheel? You're not alone. As contractors face rising ad costs and diminishing returns from traditional search marketing, many are desperately seeking alternatives—but fear venturing into unfamiliar territory.
This episode dismantles the myths surrounding lead aggregation platforms like Yelp, Thumbtack, Angie, and Nextdoor. Rather than dismissing these platforms based on outdated perceptions or single negative experiences, we explore how they function as digital versions of neighborhood referrals—connecting homeowners seeking trusted service providers with qualified contractors.
Nick Miller of Viral joins Crystal to share game-changing insights about what makes these platforms work. The conversation reveals that success hinges on three critical factors: patience (giving platforms enough time to show consistent results), speed-to-lead (responding within 60 seconds, not minutes), and proper budget allocation (understanding the threshold for meaningful participation in your specific market).
What emerges is a compelling case for diversification. While no platform delivers perfect leads every time, incorporating these lead sources into a holistic marketing strategy creates stability when viewed over time. The discussion addresses common operational hurdles, like CSR training and response protocols, while providing practical metrics to evaluate performance beyond simple revenue tracking.
Whether you're struggling with Google's rising costs or simply looking to expand your lead generation approach, this episode offers a fresh perspective on often-overlooked opportunities. By approaching these platforms with realistic expectations and strategic implementation, contractors can break free from single-source dependency and build more sustainable growth.
Ready to rethink your lead generation strategy? Listen now and discover how to make lead aggregators work for your contracting business.
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From the Yellow Chair is powered by Lemon Seed, a marketing strategy and branding company for the trades. Lemon Seed specializes in rebrands, creating unique, comprehensive, organized marketing plans, social media, and graphic design. Learn more at www.LemonSeedMarketing.com
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We'll see you next time, Lemon Heads!
Oh, what's up? Lemonheads, welcome to another episode of From the Yellow Chair. I am Crystal and today listen, I know, contractors that y'all are chasing down those leads. I know it, I know it. I lived that life. I completely understand.
Speaker 1:But today we're going to dig into something that some people have some strong feelings about. This. It could be considered a little controversial, but what if we could generate leads? What if we knew a source for you that did not include the G word and you weren't trying to spend all of your money there? What if you were able to separate out some of that spend to still have an intentional strategy on lead generation that got you off the hamster wheel that you're probably living on? You're going to want to buckle up and listen to this, because I'm probably going to, along with my guest, make you think a little differently about some lead aggregators today. So I can't wait for us to talk. So get ready, settle in and let's sip some lemonade. All right, guys, I am super excited.
Speaker 1:I just had to do a little double check for my own self to make sure I really understood, because we are doing great things with Nick and his team over at Viral. They're helping contractors do exactly what I just mentioned, which is manage all of these. I call them lead aggregators Nick's probably going to correct me on that but basically all of the places that homeowners can go and try to source a trusted service provider and how his team helps you manage that. Nick, you know I start out with my podcast a lot of times with why should anybody listening to this call care what you have to say today? Yeah, nick, you know I start out with my podcast a lot of times with why should anybody listening to this call care what you have to say today?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, they probably shouldn't listen to me because you know of my position, but in reality I just I think knowledge is power and I think a lot of these platforms have really bad reps. I think that Google is getting you know, potentially worse for a lot of people and they're looking for leads elsewhere, and so I just would love to educate here today and talk about you know, there might be some other options for you.
Speaker 1:Well, absolutely. And here's the deal. Right now, people are like oh, it was terrible, everybody was getting the same leads. I would never do lead aggregators again. I hate that. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:You know we've all heard it. But honestly, just like I talk about everything, there's a time and a place, and all marketing works when it's done correctly and intentionally. And so when you utilize these things, you're right, you're going to talk to your buddy who kills it on Yelp. Well, when you come to find out they're in the middle of Los Angeles, california, they should be killing it on Yelp. Right, I live in the middle of Podunkies, texas. 90% of people here don't even know what Yelp is.
Speaker 1:But it doesn't mean that I don't need to at least explore those lead gen opportunities, especially and I know y'all are going to get sick of me saying this word today but with a strategy and with a vendor partner that understands the importance of speed to lead and execution and things like that. So you know why do we, as contractors, put so much of our ad budget and our dependency in Google? And it's because we feel like we can at least trust it. Now many of you are like no, ma'am, I do not trust anything going on over there. They just spend my money and I can't find anything to it. Listen, it happens to me all the time with contractors. But you know, I think that due to rising ad costs, right, seo burnout and, honestly, let's call it confusion right now between the AI and all the stuff that's coming in, people don't know what to do with SEO and then just like where all of the digital people in our space are, like there's an algorithm update and I'm like listen me, and algorithms. I hate algorithms.
Speaker 2:Don't mix, well, right.
Speaker 1:And you're at most contractors are like listen, I'm just trying to run a good company, you and your algorithms can kick rocks Right, so but why do you think? Do you think it's like, are you like me? Do you just think it's because they? It's? The easy way to launch into advertising is just jump on Google. What do we think? I?
Speaker 2:think, I think it's the most talked about, for sure, I mean everybody, yeah, it's, it's it's been once again trusted, loosely defined, um, for the longest time. But I do think there's so much uncertainty right now and where the direction of the search engines are going, or the LLMs, where the AI searches are going to pull from, etc. That the problem is is that these contractors are going to have to figure out how to decipher the truth out of this right, because there's going to be, you know, there's obviously always the agencies or people who are going to take advantage of, you know, the lack of knowledge. So I think it's a super important time to you know, focus on understanding. You know how things are working and, yeah, I agree, Like it's a comfort place.
Speaker 2:I also think like a lot of people just get burned in a lot of different areas. One time in their tenure, in their 20 years of business, they tried it once and it didn't work and they're never going to try it again. I think we definitely have to do some forgiving here, because I think, because of that uncertainty, we want to try to, you know, find our place and find that certainty.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I agree with that. I agree that a lot of times, people like a lot of people. They'll call them and see and they're just like, well, you know, I know I need to be doing Google and I'm like, well, you also need to be doing Microsoft, bing, you also need to be doing social media. We need to be all doing a lot of things, but you're right, I think it is definitely a comfort space. So I think what I learned about viral that I want to talk about specifically today is not necessarily your product, which I love your products but I want to talk about is how do we feel about this myth style idea that those leads are junk leads or that they're just tire kickers and things like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we have to. We have to, you know, kind of have a reality check in that there's no perfect lead platform, right, Like, look at what LSA is doing, we all knew it was coming, but they're, they're starting to get into the lead sharing model rather than a, you know, individual Google local service ads are like no, you don't just get one now, you get four, right, and obviously they're not doing that with all of them, but it's, it's always going to be evolving, especially if there's money to be made from these platforms. Um, I think you know the, the contractors. They need to understand that there is going to be the fluff in there. There's going to be the tire kickers. You don't care about those, right, like, you're, you're not in it for the person who's just looking for the lowest cost.
Speaker 2:Of course, there's going to be those people out there. It's the you know 10,. You know people that come through that just needed done, it's an emergency and it's going to be a 30,000 to $50,000 ticket and and they just they want it now. And so if you have 90% of your leads that are coming in that are completely garbage you can never follow up with again, but that 10% is bringing that it shouldn't really make a difference. Right, I understand you want to be efficient and obviously that's the point long term, but really efficiency is a really hard thing to achieve right now because of that unknown that we've been talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, again, it's very hard to track.
Speaker 1:Digital things are super hard to track.
Speaker 1:So the good news here is, I do think with some of these lead aggregation softwares like Thumbtack, yelp, angie, nextdoor you know, I think it's a game right and they all have their own idiosyncrasies, little unique things that suck about them and the things that really are great with them, you know, for them Next door, I've learned, to me is literally like building a neighborhood, like you're building a community, I think Yelp like when I look at Yelp and I think of Yelp now again, I'm from rural East Texas, so we don't even use you I feel fancy when I get to go to a city that utilizes Yelp because I'm a review reader, especially on things like restaurants and stuff like that, so I can see the pull for homeowners to go look on Yelp to see what other people are saying, because we trust other people, because we constantly as consumers feel manipulated and tricked and sold to, so we're naturally more apprehensive.
Speaker 1:And tricked and sold to, so we're naturally more apprehensive. And so these apps are actually kind of wrapping the consumer in confidence and like what they feel like are true referrals, like old school, like tell my neighbor, right, how much I like. So these are just digital. Tell your neighbors.
Speaker 2:But nobody's, nobody's, nobody's doing that anymore, right? Nobody's talking to their neighbor, Nobody's going on, and not for that, we're too busy. We're too, you know, staring at our phone or whatever.
Speaker 2:We're too digital, I mean it is. So you know that's the be that uh, everywhere. And you know, obviously reviews are really bad word, especially for everybody who hates Yelp, because that's the number one reason that they're not going to like it. But at the same time, just because you don't like something in the way it's done doesn't mean that, pete, that the consumers on the end are going to utilize it. So it's like you can say, oh, I'm never going to do that. They, you know, high reviews or whatever. But at the same time, if that's where all your you know, your, your clients, your customers are going to get that information, you're just going to be okay with your business sitting there looking like it's, you know, in a back alley in a basement versus you know, really showing who you are, and I know that's. You know the branding piece obviously you guys, I know, have talked about a ton why that's so important, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, there's just something about a good understanding and having clear expectations of what you're getting into. So many people have unrealistic expectations of performance and that there is just this line of perfection that what do you mean? Like all my marketing companies are screwing me over and and I'm just like it's your expectations. That's like eating a salad and being like, okay, well, I'm not skinny today, not skinny right. You're like okay, there's gotta be. You gotta have some expectations here and understand what you gotta go through with these things. Well, and I know I didn't really prep you for this question, but you know, what do you think are like if you had to pick a couple of things that are imperative to being successful inside of this style of lead aggregation softwares? What do you think are the two, two or three things that contractors really need to have their their mindset around, maybe even just like understanding about them that most that you think contractors are missing?
Speaker 2:Um, I'm going to start out with patience, um, which, like you had just alluded to, a lot of people are like, oh, this doesn't work, and they pull the. They, you know they try it once for a month and it doesn't work, and then they got to pull it out, right. And then they're like I know that didn't work for me, right? Um, I think you know things that contractors should have should be patience, um, and organization on their end, right, like speed, the lead, obviously super important. How your CSR team is following up with these leads. The service that you're providing to the customers is probably second most important. You know, we there. There's a uh example that got brought to me not too long ago where they were on Thumbtack and Yelp and maybe one of the platform. It was Angie and Angie was pretty consistent as far as results go. Um, but the the first four months. There was one month where Yelp was at you know a ridiculous amount, right? They had gotten a couple of huge jobs from. They were 10, 20, x, whatever. Thumbtack was at zero, right, and there would be people who would just pull that platform because they're like I wasted a couple thousand dollars this month in this platform. I don't want to do it again, but the very, the very next month it flip-flopped. Yelp did next to nothing, and then Thumbtack was doing the 10 to 20 X and so it went back and forth through, you know, four to six months and really still is.
Speaker 2:I think that happens with a lot of clients. I think they, you know. That's why the patience is the key, because when you zoom out right and you look, it's just like looking at the stock market, right. If you're looking at one microscope particular day, you might see the stock plummeting and you're like this is a bad stock, right. But if you zoom out to the five-year, and it is, you know, up and to the right consistently, that's all that we look for in that matter. So I think the patience piece is the most important giving the channels the appropriate time to grow and optimize. I know optimize is like another trigger word for a lot of people because they don't understand it.
Speaker 2:But I think, but it's true, right, because you know, and back to the other trigger word, algorithm, like these are the things that the consistency that we have to find in these different platforms so that we can, you know, as an aggregate, provide that consistency, because it's not going to be consistent from one particular platform. And I think you know, branching from what we started with, which was you know why are people looking for other places than Google? It's because they are not getting that consistency. People, you know, can't spend the budgets they want in local service ads, or their PPC costs are getting double, tripled and they're getting less leads and they're just searching and they can't find that consistency. So I think the more, uh, the more platforms that you have in place, the more consistency that you can find as a whole, maybe not on an individual platform basis, which is why it's, I think, most important to not just, once again, only find one other one, but have multiple.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. So I'm all about diversifying. So you know, one of the biggest issues that we see at Lemon Seed is that people come in and like all of their eggs are in one basket, kind of like you're mentioning, like they're all in one spot and all of their budget goes there and they don't have any money to at least give a little love. And so one thing is sometimes contractors spend so little money that it's wasted. Sometimes they're drastically overspending, and so those of you that are listening, like this, what we're talking about today is a great way to diversify your spend for new customer acquisition. This is a straight up bottom of the funnel, the very tip of the funnel. These people are falling out of the funnel, ready, ready to buy, and so many of you are scared of this because it is about speed and it is about efficiency. And so there is lots of integrations Again, another trigger word. We have set up trigger words for y'all. Today we're going to have a trigger warning at the front, but on integrations, there are a lot of ways that you can utilize platforms that will integrate in there. So as soon as those leads come across, you're able to capture them. You train your CSR teams to know how to capture, know how to get the lead booked and go out on them, and you can't build a business around the outliers.
Speaker 1:So are there crappy leads that come through these different platforms, through the Yelps and the next stores, and all of that, of course. But let me tell you this there's crappy leads coming through Facebook ads and geofencing and retargeting. They're all. They're all. It's all a crap shoot sometimes, right? So you just have to be ready for that. Well, I love, I love what we're talking about here. So I want to lay down into kind of that same thing. Like it does matter how quickly we respond to the style of leads, or is that a myth that I've heard?
Speaker 2:No, I think, absolutely. Speed to lead is a hundred percent the name of the game, and obviously everybody says speed to lead, but like, well, what does that mean? Right? And so I think, um, you know, especially on platforms that are, you know, sharing leads, which is the majority of these platforms, right, they're all trying to make money too.
Speaker 2:Um, you, you have to be in their inbox in you know 60 seconds or less, because I have people all the time tell me well, you know, I have a really good team, they'll get to it in 10, under 10 minutes. And I say, yeah, but what if someone else from another company gets to it in one minute? Like, your, 10 minutes is great, especially on Yelp. Everybody, you know, everybody who is familiar with Yelp and the request to quote process knows that 10 minutes is the lowest amount of time it'll show, so great, it looks like you're really fast to it. But that doesn't mean you're capturing the people who need it now. Now, obviously there's going to be the people who don't, but yeah, but we live in an instantaneous world.
Speaker 1:So, listen, I'm going to let me step on some toes. I love to do this. Some of y'all will never survive this. Y'all don't have, you, your owners, you don't have any sense of urgency and you're not going to require your team to have urgency. So let me and Nick go ahead and tell you to not Nick, if I speak for you at a turn, you just jump in here. Don't waste your money on these products. If you are not going to prioritize the urgency of response, if that's not your jam, don't even go over here. Hang up Like don't even go.
Speaker 1:Stop listening now, Well not hang up, like don't even go, stop listening now, 100%, and I'm saying that because I don't want you to have these unrealistic expectations. Or my favorite one is be mad Like you're mad when I'm like listen for you to do this. You're over here telling us you don't have leads, which would mean I don't have a CSR. That's busy, but now we have the audacity to ask them to work quickly. You see where that dog doesn't hunt here in East Texas. So the issue that we've got to worry about here is you have to have the right mindset that you know you're being intentional about the strategy of launching this style of program. And then, when you utilize vendors like Viral who help you manage these whole things, let me tell you what all you have to worry about is making sure your team handles the leads well when they come in. That is your part of the. Y'all are a dynamic duo on Dancing with the Stars and all we need you to do is follow all right.
Speaker 1:You don't even have to lead or choreograph, just follow the leader Just literally call, make a call.
Speaker 2:That's basically all we're trying to get to right. We're trying to automate everything on the front end to make it as seamless as possible, and then all you have to do is make the phone call. And I think that's where the translation can get lost. Is that if they're not super committed to the cause, right, then they're like oh great, I got all these leads. And then they're like but they were terrible, they didn't close. Well, okay, how fast did you call them? Right? Oh, we call them, you know, the next day.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're highly offended, we're highly offended, and I'm like it happens all the time. Contractors like I need more leads and I'm like, okay, start outbound calling. Oh well, my CSRs are busy. I'm like, doing what you just told me, no one was calling. And again, this comes from unrealistic expectations on advertising tactics, and so you know I can beat it to death. But let me ask this what are some key metrics, nick, that we could use as contractors to know that this style of, let's say, we're pretty good at response Response is not an issue? What are some key indicators to know if we need to add more money to our spend, because you know what happens. Right, as contractors, we get two or three good leads and we're like, nick, here's all of our money. So how do we kind of manage that? What are some good key performance indicators for these things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think every platform is going to be super different. Right, your cost per lead for each platform, especially when Yelp is more of a cost per click model, versus Thumbtack and Angie are going to be more of a cost per lead model. I do think they should, you know, fall in line with, you know, on an average basis across the board. I think the thing I think close rate does have a lot to do with what you know. You shouldn't come in expecting a really, really high one, but if you are not getting a ton of lead volume and you're not closing a lot of leads, obviously something's wrong. And the things that we're going to look at are going to be your speed delete time, right. So that's one indicator of how quickly are you getting to them.
Speaker 2:But two, your overall budget. You alluded to this a little bit before. Are you past that break point of entry? And I think it obviously depends on the city. You can't go out in California and spend $1,000 on Yelp and expect a single lead. It's just not going to happen. You're burning your money, don't do it, waste it.
Speaker 1:It's not enough. Waste it, waste it.
Speaker 2:You've got to be near the average. You've got to be at least in the ballpark, because there's only so much business to go around. An average in California for a plumbing or HVAC contractor might be 10,000, right? So if you just can't do that, then that's not the platform for you. Then you got to go find another platform that you might be able to.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it's going to be figuring out that happy medium of you know that you're past the point of entry, but you're not wasting money, right? You know there's the point of diminishing return as well. So where, where's that middle ground where we can, um, start off and then, you know, take the ladder up from there Once, once we figure out and dial it in, um, that's, you know, working. But I don't think. I think conversion is probably the one word that we would look at most, and more so, like, not just they looked at it, but they actually, you know, either went to the website, had a phone call, you know, gave them, gave your phone number, etc. Because those are the people who are wanting the jobs, and so that's the ones that we kind of zero in on. Ok, you have a phone number. What did you do after that?
Speaker 1:This is why you can't just look at revenue. You can't just look at revenue, because number one revenue is your problem. Contractor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not my problem. It still is, but it's not.
Speaker 1:And here's why I say that If you actually are getting bad leads and they truly won't turn anything, then you should be having a conversation with who's helping you manage those platforms. This is where I mean about good conversation and good transparency here. So, at the end of the day, as marketers whether it's Viral or Lemon Seed or whoever you're using for websites our job is to help your phone to ring. My specific job is to help more people get access to your company in general. But if you worry, I would worry about conversion. How many of the leads that came through from any of these platforms was I able to actually convert to a call? And then start there.
Speaker 1:Then start looking at revenue, right, because at the end of the day, that's what we need to make payroll and you know, pay ourselves. So then look at payroll. And then I also would look at like, what is my book, my cancellation rate? And the reason that you're watching those things is so that you know, man, am I operationally, am I maximizing every opportunity? And so you start kind of pivoting a little here and there to make the perfect kind of cocktail to win the day at this space, and then you can hold your managers like viral, accountable in the sense of hey, this is what I'm showing. Listen, I would put money on this right now. The majority of people at viral would be so thankful for you to communicate clearly to them what's working and not working on the inside.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. Everything that you put into it is going to come out of it, right. So it's like it's. You know, it's like training a new employee the more you work with them, the more time you spend with them, the better they're going to get. So I think you know it's got to be a back and forth. You know we're going to. We're going to see what we see on our side. We're going to see the revenue, we're going to see the clicks, we're going to see the conversions and all of that. But if you're saying, hey, I know this is converting a lot, but you know the average ticket cost has been plummeting, right, or something like that, then it's like we need to know that so we can pivot the strategy or maybe look at a different platform, because certain platforms aren't providing that. Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. So I agree, it is once again. Probably another misconception is, you know, oh, I just got to have someone manage it and then I can kick my feet up, right.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, yeah, Sorry, yeah, set it and forget it. So that's why people hire Living Seed. Ok, because they're like I don't want to focus on this, but, ok, I think, both of us. Today, I think our biggest encouragement to contractors is try something different. What if they're currently using these platforms right now, nick? What are some of the things that you've seen? Maybe some of your most successful contractors?
Speaker 2:doing? Is it just ad spend? Is it creative offers? Biggest, you know, nugget that I could probably drop is that you want to make sure that all these platforms represent your company how you want your company to be represented. Right, they are a second employee to you and so, yeah, you want to make sure that it appears something that someone wants to. You know, grab off the shelf, right, if you're just another. You know Yelp is a prime example. You go to HVAC, for you know, dallas, texas. You scroll down, you see seven out of 10 ads are a picture of. You know, and I'm like it's not sexy, it's not, I'm sorry, like it. Why is that setting you apart? You all have the same thing on there, right? So you got to set yourself apart a little bit. You know.
Speaker 2:I think the secondary piece is going to be figuring out that budget. I think you know you can. You can have an audit pulled whether we help you with that or kind of just looking into what the industry is doing and in in that aspect, you can figure out where the waste is If you are super under, super over, like that's another primary thing, especially if they're spending. I will tell one more quick story here about and I won't tell the name cause I would feel bad but I pulled an audit for a contractor and they were in a market that was similar to what you were saying not your California market, right, where there's not the most inventory but there's still enough to be dangerous. Right, they were spending $10,000 in ads on a Yelp, but once again, in a normal market, that would be fine In this particular market.
Speaker 2:I was like, wow, that seems really high, right. And so we dug in and figured out some competitors' spend and their average spend was closer to like $1,500, like the top three competitors. So they were burning $8,000 a month without knowing it, and and they were getting similar lead volumes as these competitors. So that's just like you know. That's obviously the contrary. Where it's like you're, you're overspending and maybe that's google that you're overspending on or maybe that's, you know, a different platform that you might be wasting on. Um, I think that's the point is, you know it's, it's got to be super intentional. It can't be set it and forget it, and you have to look at everything holistically and try to figure out where all the puzzle pieces can fall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love it. Holistically is like my whole mantra, because marketing holistically is definitely the trick to having an overall winning mentality. Because marketing will beat you up. Ok, if you look at marketing, by the minute you'll be like I hate everything, fire everybody, start all over again, you know, and that's just. You have to look at it in larger time frames and you have to be more patient All the things you mentioned earlier. So well, listen, nick, if people are like, ok, I'm willing to do this, I just don't know what to do. If you're a LemonSeed client, remember, we're happy to make the connection for Viral and we do cool things, like create cool graphics, instead of you stuck like it, looking like everybody else. But LemonSeed would actually work with Viral to help create a really cool strategy that aligns with every other vendor partner that you're using. But, nick, tell them how to get in contact with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So as far as my email nickmiller at viralcom, you guys can also visit our website. You know would love to just even have a conversation. It doesn't have to be anything serious, it can just be like hey, let me pull some audits, let me see if you're overspending in those areas. Let's look at all these platforms Once again. Everybody's area is going to be super different If they're in the Midwest versus the East Coast versus the West Coast. All these platforms have different abilities, inventories, levers. So I think it's important to just, once again, knowledge is power. So if we can look into that for everyone and kind of give them that guide, they can either go do it themselves or they can obviously have us do it.
Speaker 2:I think you know the number one thing that we're going to help with a little bit more is on the attribution side. We do have a reporting dashboard. So I think our lead cloud dashboard showing all the revenue, showing where everything's coming from, highlighting that transparency. I think that's something that a lot of contractors don't think about. They're just like, yeah, I'm, I'm on it, I'm there, I'm spending, Um, but they don't necessarily see the full picture in the full circle If they have that thousand foot view at all times. It makes them a lot more comfortable in the longterm. So I think, uh, yeah would love to have those conversations and hopefully you guys aren't too scared to reach out. But, um, it's a big first step because I, I, I put a lot of those, uh, those trigger words out there. Um, so I, I, uh, I know it's a hard first step, but I think that there's a lot of room to grow with these platforms for a lot of clients.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, absolutely so. Listen, contractors, if your marketing plan starts and ends with Google, it might be time to mix that up. Let us get strategic for you. There are real customers out there on other platforms that, if you can, and it's the right time for your business, stop overlooking this cool opportunity and get in the mix there. Thank you, nick Miller from Viral, for joining me today. Listen, we adore. We have a great partnership here and so, if anyone, we can both connect you to each other, so reach out and let us know how we can help. Thanks for sipping lemonade from the yellow chair and we will see you next time.