From the Yellow Chair
From the Yellow Chair
Top 5 Dumbest Mistakes Contractors Make (Are YOU on our List?)
Ever wonder why some contractors seem to explode onto the scene while others struggle for decades without significant growth? The answer lies in avoiding what Crystal Williams and Eric Thomas call "the dumbest marketing mistakes" that plague the contracting industry.
This candid conversation dives deep into the nine critical errors preventing contractors from reaching their full potential. At the top of the list: woefully inadequate marketing budgets. While most contractors hover around 2-3% of revenue, true growth requires 8-10% investment based on revenue goals, not current earnings. As Crystal explains, "I'm rolling 12% deep when we're opening a new location on a million-dollar budget," a strategy that has consistently produced million-dollar companies within 20 months.
The discussion highlights how contractors frequently mismanage internal marketing positions, turning dedicated brand-builders into glorified customer service representatives. This misalignment wastes talent and prevents businesses from developing the community presence needed for sustainable growth. Both experts emphasize that marketing isn't about single tactics but requires an integrated strategy where all elements work together to strengthen your brand position.
Perhaps most revealing is their analysis of why contractors resist innovations like online pricing and scheduling. "I remember in 2019, when the thought of online scheduling was just the craziest thought in the world," Eric recalls. "But now that conversation is not happening anymore... we're facing that same thing right now with pricing transparency." Crystal adds, "You are not doing people a favor by servicing their air conditioner... Book the lead, book it, and then figure it out."
Whether you're struggling with imposter syndrome, relying too heavily on Facebook advice, or starting businesses without adequate marketing capital, this conversation provides actionable insights to transform your approach. The contractors who will dominate in the coming years aren't necessarily the most skilled technicians—they're the ones who master these marketing fundamentals and invest accordingly.
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We'll see you next time, Lemon Heads!
All right, what's up? Lemonheads? Welcome back to another episode of From the Yellow Chair. I'm Rachel Durez, a graphic designer here at Lemon Seed Marketing, and I'm excited to be back on the mic with you guys today. On this episode, we're diving into the top five dumbest mistakes contractors make. Now, don't worry, we're not here to poke fun. We're also here to learn, to grow and make sure that you avoid these pitfalls in your own business. Whether you've been in the game for years or you're just getting started, these insights are going to help you tighten up your strategy, connect with your audience and build the kind of brand that lasts. So grab your headphones, settle in and let's sip some lemonade.
Speaker 2:We are really going to be talking about some of the things that contractors do that I call the dumbest mistakes and I felt bad after I did that because I thought dumb is a strong word. Innocent mistakes maybe is a better way to say it until y'all keep doing it, even though we've told you not to do it. Then it becomes dumb. What do you think, Eric?
Speaker 3:I think some of them are pretty dumb.
Speaker 2:Just dumb in general. I think some of them are pretty dumb, just dumb in general. Yeah, man, I'm telling you, I come from a home service background. So you know, my family owned and operated a heating, cooling and now plumbing company owns actively. And also my sister and brother-in-law and my husband worked at our family's pest control company. I have ownership, part ownership, in a roofing company and so, and I work with contractors every single day. It is wild to me some of the things that I see happening and I'm like, man, there's so much for me to cover with everyone. But I know, I know what they need to do. It's just a matter of getting them to do it. So, eric, tell everybody a little bit about yourself and then we'll kind of jump into content.
Speaker 3:Today, yeah, yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat with the social media land. My name is Eric Thomas. I'm the founder and president of Rival Digital. We are one of way too many digital marketing agencies in the world, but we're probably the only ones that you know of that have upside down hats. So, yeah, I'm really passionate about all things marketing and the trades digital marketing, traditional advertising, any of that good stuff. I love talking about it, messaging, branding, all good things.
Speaker 3:I read a book called the Home Advantage and that is being printed as we speak. It might actually be delivered today, so that could be exciting. At least the first round of hard copies, yes, yeah, so I'll have that save the date like pre-sale type deal going out, probably on Facebook, hopefully this week, kind of announcing when that'll be done so folks can get that, and I'm super excited for that. I post a podcast called the Trademark with our good friend Sarah. We do that weekly show. A lot of good times on there and, yeah, I'm kind of a marketing dude Just trying to have fun.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, with two little kids in the house.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, two little kids yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes. So again I'm Crystal Williams, the co-founder and lead strategist at Lemon Seed Marketing. And just so everyone knows that Lemon Seed Marketing is not a digital agency. Therefore, we work with Eric on some mutual clients and enjoy that relationship a lot. And so Lemon Seed is designed to be brand strategist, meaning we help you build a full strategy about how to grow your brand and then how to do advertising with it.
Speaker 2:And it is definitely that time of the year for us to start worrying I use worrying because contractors can't help it but worrying about what you're going to do in 2026 and planning, and so the fall time is a great time to not take your eye off the ball for what you're going to do during the shoulder season for those of y'all that have one but also looking ahead to 2026, and we would love to help you out. So at any point you can drop your email, you can email us at hello at lemonseamarketingcom, and we're happy to jump on fun banter back and forth, and he and I can really get going about mistakes that we think that contractors make that is so detrimental to their overall growth. Now he and I both sit on the marketing side of growing a business. So I think there's three ways that people can grow a business. One of them is going to be being priced correctly and efficiently, so most of you probably need to take a price increase. Even if it's a small one, no one would even know it. You'd automatically make up some revenue. The other one is operational excellence. So lead generator, lead generation style companies like Eric's company and like Lemon Seed, rival Digital and Lemon Seed we are designed to drive more business to you.
Speaker 2:But what you do with it once the phone rings or once the chat goes off or once the form field comes in, we can't help that part other than just giving you guidance. But the third thing that you can do to grow your business is definitely marketing, and so I'll hurt feelings. First, most of the people that I talk to that are coming on board with Lemon Seed. They're spending 2% to 3% in marketing and wondering why people are just running over the top of them Like man, where did this new company come from? They're just all over the place and I feel like they're just come out of nowhere and I'm like, well, odds are they just really got serious about marketing budget.
Speaker 3:Eric, do y'all have a lot of conversations about that with your contractors? Oh, yeah, yeah, we often talk about just budget in general with contractors because, especially like the ones we've been working with for a long time, because it's pretty easy to like kind of set your you know your different providers and partners in place and just kind of hope that they can just kind of stay there forever. But as your business grows, the spend needs to grow as well, as you know. I guess the investment in marketing needs to grow and we hear it all the time where folks are like I've never like this company just started like six months ago. They came out of nowhere and it's like well, they're probably spending more money than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I will shock people. So, like when my pest control when my sister and I my brother and I started the pest control company, I was like, okay, we need 14% in marketing, and so we set a million dollar goal and we want to do. Before we sold the first pest control contract, we were like we're going to spend 14% and that's not easy to do. It was very scary, but we've done this. We are no stranger to the game here and so we knew if we could just grin and bear it through six months of going hard and heavy on building a brand, getting a website, doing social media, getting our yard signs done, wrapping our vehicles, getting everybody in a uniform, we were going to be miles ahead and literally we did our ribbon cutting when we finally got a little, a small little office location just to help Google business profile. Um, when we did that, um, we had two of the other companies in our town show up and one of them was like I feel like y'all blew up overnight and I'm like 1000% was not overnight, right, but it just was. We, we, we, literally we bulldozed the competition just because we were intentional and, um, we were aggressive out of the gate, but it is.
Speaker 2:It is a little scary. So you know, honestly, I'll I'll say this, and eric might have a little slightly different opinion, but I would tell you to go get your. Whatever your revenue goal is going to be for next year, so for 2026, what's your revenue goal going to be? What are you hoping to get to? And then, what are you currently spending in marketing? Odds are it's less than 5%, would you agree, eric? I think that's pretty normal.
Speaker 2:If you want to grow by more than 10%, I would encourage you to try to get closer to 10, if not 12%. And people are going to be like what is going on? Why would you do that? You're overspending? And you just look at them and say okay, and then you blow right past them in six months. What do you think about those numbers, eric?
Speaker 3:No, I think it's totally true. I think something that you mentioned is the very common challenge that folks have with this is that it's scary. It's scary to think, okay, I'm going to spend 10% of my goal, not what I did last year, but 10% of my goal this year to hit that goal. And when you look at it, like when you zoom out and look at a 12-month approach, it's like, oh gosh, that's like you know, if it's 10% of you know $2 million, like that's a lot of money to spend, like I don't have $200,000 laying around I don't think anyone does, but it's you know. When you divide it and you start doing the math, you work it backwards. You know $2 million is the goal. I need to spend $200,000 and divide that by 12. You got someone who's probably better at math than I am.
Speaker 2:We're marketers, not mathematicians.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm sure my calculator on my phone could tell me. But you start looking at it from a 12-month view and you're like, okay, that's a little bit more reasonable. And then you take that and you break down your average ticket and then suddenly it's like I only need 18 jobs to pay for this. Yes, like, do you think that investing this into the right marketing could get you 18 jobs? Probably, and so I think that's where, when you break down the math for folks, that's when it gets a little bit easier to digest. But the problem this is a problem a lot of contractors make is that they don't have anyone guiding their strategy.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:And so they don't. So what do they do? They go on Facebook and they say what's everyone spending on marketing? And then you get the people who say 3% max.
Speaker 2:I've never had to spend more than 5%. I built my business on shaking hands and listen, I could get riled up by the end of this I will need a drink, but what I'll tell you is Eric is 100% right. Facebook really makes me want to hurt myself and others, but at the end of the day, people on Facebook are going to give you their truth and their truth is not a lot of times your truth. So they're 100% right that you can grow your business really far by being a good person, doing referrals and doing good work. You 1000% can grow it that way and you should. You should be a good person offering good businesses or offering good business. But what I tell clients is that's how far you got with no marketing effort.
Speaker 2:Imagine where you would be if you would have invested in true marketing strategy five years ago, 20 years ago. Where you would be now. I can tell you this If you have a strong marketing effort and good operational excellence, there's zero reason to be in business more than two or three years and be at a million dollars. If you're at a million dollars and you've been in business more than two or three years, odds are it's a marketing problem or an operational problem, but I'm telling you, at the end of the day it's some combination thereof. I've talked to 30-year-old companies that will tell me I don't know what I've done wrong. I've been in business 30 years and I'm going to do $2 million. And I tell them when McWilliamsiams, when my family, when we open a new location, we're doing two million dollars in 20 months yeah so I'm like there's, there's got to be, there's got to be a common factor here and again.
Speaker 2:I just think so much of it eric is from. They don't, contractors don't know who to trust and they're very afraid of vendors. They feel like, especially digital vendors. They feel like y'all are tricking them, you're lying to them.
Speaker 1:We are.
Speaker 2:It's a big scheme. I did have a contractor yesterday. So, like yesterday, in one of the Facebook feeds there was a digital company really getting hammered. I mean, they were just coming for them, right, we've been paying. We hadn't been getting it. And literally I was like I have five clients with that particular digital vendor that are killing the game, growing. Everything worked out well. And I'm like man, yes, they might have done some things wrong. So has lemon seed, probably. So has rival, so has everybody.
Speaker 2:But I'm like gosh, it is crazy to the amount of people that come out of the woodwork to just like blast a company like name names. You should be naming names. I'm all again, I'm all for transparency, but I tell clients all the time. I work with numerous digital partners and I'm like, hey, here are the ones that have a proven track record. You're not going to love every one of them, they're not all going to be your style. So I want to. For instance, let me introduce you to Eric and his team over at rival digital, and they may interview with you and be like we love them, or they might be. Oh, I really want someone a lot more aggressive. Okay, well, eric is not aggressive. Eric's team's pretty chill and laid back. So you know, or they are.
Speaker 2:They have no digital presence at all right now, and I'm like okay, this presence at all right now, and I'm like, okay, this might overwhelm you, right? So there's a place for all these digital vendors and we have some really good ones in our industry, but we also have some shady pants, things that go on.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and the other thing, kind of going back to that Facebook thread, I saw that and I was reading it and it was a mistake that a lot of contractors make is is getting on those groups and taking what one person said and, by the way, the person posted it anonymously yep, so they take one anonymous person's truth and they make that the truth that they're going to believe about someone, and but that you know there's. That's only one side of the of the story, and you know so. I think that's a challenge. One side of the of the story, and you know so.
Speaker 3:I think that's a challenge that people make is they'll read something on Facebook, good or bad, you know.
Speaker 3:Sometimes they they read a good thing and they're just like, oh well, they got a good review from this one person, that must mean that you're the best. Or they'll say, oh, you got, you had one person upset, you must suck, yes, instead of just finding out for themselves, because someone who might say that we're good, we might not be a fit for the next person in line, or someone that said we suck, maybe that was just a bad fit and the next person in line is a great fit and we would do great for them. So I think there's a lot of folks, I think that Facebook has made it really challenging for people to think for themselves and they just want to go get the answers really quickly from everyone else. Because, I guarantee you, on the other side of that post, I guarantee you, there was client delays, there was client feedback, there was edits, there was no photos. I guarantee you, that wasn't just the only side of the story, especially since they posted it anonymously. I'm not really buying it.
Speaker 2:Well, and like Joe's strip matter, he's like I thought we graduated from high school, I agree. I think that's part of my issue is like here's what I think those groups are really good for. I think those groups are good for just a sense of community, like does anyone have a thought about this? What I don't like them for is true vendor recommendation because it's so cloudy. It's just so cloudy.
Speaker 2:I wrote down we've already listed two mistakes. Number one no strategy behind what you're doing. You can have a plan of who you're going to use, but you really need a strategy about how all of it works together. Strategy meaning all your advertising tactics need to work together to further your company. That's number one. Number two Facebook being just your only source of truth, right, just, it's noisy, that's right. Riley from LCS and Indies like super noisy. And Riley made another comment on here.
Speaker 2:There's a number of 50 year old companies in our market that don't care to do the work. I say this a lot of times. If I am speaking at a conference or any podcast or whatever I'm doing, I will say this I could stand on a stage and tell contractors exactly how to grow their company and they will walk out of the room and be like I'm not going to do it. They're just not going to do it, and so I'm not afraid to even give free advice. You probably aren't either. I'll tell you exactly what to do it, and so I'm not afraid to even give free advice. You probably aren't either. Like, I'll tell you exactly what to do, but they're not going to invest the time or the money or the resources to do what they need to do. They think it comes a lot easier than it really does.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And there's, I think, another thing, and this kind of aligns with strategy. But just every business is different and everyone's goals are different, and so what worked for Riley might not work for Joe, and what worked for you might not work for me. And so that's where it's like it's so hard to get a source of truth for what's right for your business, because everyone's business is different. The markets are different, the climate's different, the weather's different, the fine consumer behaviors are different. Um, your brand is different, your messaging is different, how you're perceived is different.
Speaker 3:Oh, but we're expecting this one financing company to be the silver bullet that both of us need, or we're expecting this one marketing company to be the silver bullet. There's no silver bullet, and so that's why I can't emphasize it enough. For folks these days, when they're reaching out, I'm like don't just talk to us, please go talk to three or four others, and if they don't have goals for their business, then don't talk to us at all, because I'm not coming up with your goals for you. I'm not coming up with your strategy for you, like for your overall business, that is, we can come up with a digital strategy, but I'm not coming up with your business goals for you, like that is not my job, that is your job as the owner. Do not delegate that on me.
Speaker 2:Listen. So part of onboarding with Lemon Seed is we do this comprehensive audit. And so I use this analogy all the time and see does we do this comprehensive audit? And so I use this analogy all the time. When you go to the doctor right to go sit down, you don't just go into the examination room and the doctor walk in and be like, all right, here is your prescription for diabetes medicine, right, they have to actually do an examination. So we say we need to examine everything that you're currently doing, the landscape of your market, everything that we can. So this is what we're going to do.
Speaker 2:So I'm like what are your goals for next year? And though, anytime the contractor goes well. And I'm like period period sir, like you don't know, ma'am, you don't know, you don't know yet. And so then I will get on the call. Listen, I'm going to tell you. I call them young bucks, these young guys that are more business savvy. They will get on a call and be like I'm trying to grow by 20%. Right now, my average install ticket is $18,000. I think I'm bringing in a coaching team. I'm hoping to get it up to 21. And I'm like okay, these are the people that I can ride with right, because I can handle your marketing strategy. My team can build your strategy all the way from your branding just overall branding in your market, community involvement, social media, email marketing, down to your existing customers, all the way to new customer generation with the perfect set of vendors. But, my Lord, I can't help you if you're just sitting back and you're not going to hold anybody accountable and it's just, it's wild to me.
Speaker 2:The people that don't know their numbers, I will say this HVAC and plumbers are miles ahead of other industries. As we started working with a few other industries that just came to us naturally, like through same owner, like open to garage door or open to roofing, open pest control, whatever I've learned that those industries are pretty far ahead of these others. But like pest control, for example, my first interview with a pest control company, which I knew, all these things my sister and I had my sister specifically, had done all this research to know expected expectations of you know, average tickets and things like that. Well, I got on the phone and this guy says I don't really believe in all that big brother stuff. So I was like, excuse me, big brother is worried about your average ticket on Roach treatments. I don't know that anyone cares as much, but it was a, it was a, it was just a, a tool that they were using to deflect from not knowing what their actual numbers are and what their business are. Business was so. So I did write down the third one.
Speaker 2:A third mistake that we think people make is budget spend, and, of course, budget spend meaning based off your goal. And the other one that we just mentioned is like we can't know your business goals. I do think that's dumb. I'll be honest, like dumb is such a hard word for me, but because I tell my kids, don't call people dumb, I'm not calling you dumb, I'm calling what you're doing dumb here. So, guys, if you're listening to this and you cannot rattle off to me at least the basic KPIs, what is your revenue goals? How close are you to hitting them? That's where I tell you to go get a business coach. You need a business coach.
Speaker 2:Live and Seed can do a lot of things to mash up the marketing and the operations to see if we can help you identify problems. But like we're not built to go in and identify deep rooted operational issues. Which same thing for you, eric. I know you and I've had a conversation before and we shared a client one time and both of us were like we don't know whether to be depressed for this client, because what they did was what they left both me and Eric in this blaze of glory and went to like this little new thing on the market and both of us were like this is going to be disastrous for them. And then, sure enough, four months later the client's like hey, can we talk about a strategy? And I'm like for free. Like for free, you know.
Speaker 2:So but I know you see that going on a lot, so what's another one, eric? Do you have another one that popped into your head that you think contractors are doing to kind of bad mistakes they're making?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know if this is a common mistake. This is a mistake that I've seen happen twice with clients that we've worked with, and that is hiring an internal marketing employee and then turning them into an overpaid CSR.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:It's like so if you're going to hire someone for marketing, you need to really think through it and fill in the gaps of like or at least identify like what. They're going to hire someone for marketing, you need to really think through it and fill in the gaps of like or at least identify like what they're going to do and even see if it makes sense to have like an internal person for, like, community marketing and stuff like that internally to kind of oversee all your different partnerships. I've seen it twice now where someone has hired a marketing manager and then three months into it they're answering calls. I see them dispatching calls on ServiceTitan. I'm like why is she dispatching calls on ServiceTitan?
Speaker 3:and it blows my mind. And again I saw a post on Facebook. I mean gosh, facebook drives me nuts. I've gotten to the point now where I was telling someone this at Home Service Freedom. I've gotten to the point now with like, with social media and Facebook and all that stuff, where, if I don't physically see it with my own two eyes, I don't believe anything anymore. Like I don't believe it unless I actually see it happen or I hear it said. Like I just don't physically see it with my own two eyes, I don't believe anything anymore. I don't believe it unless I actually see it happen or I hear it said. I just don't believe it.
Speaker 3:Anyways, just a side rant. But I saw someone make a post, anonymously, of course, and they were like I just hired my first internal marketing person. What should their KPIs and metrics be? And I was like, oh, this is going to be good. It's like, okay, well, first off, what are they doing? Are they doing your social media? Are they handling your emails? Are they handling, you know, terp? I can't create KPIs for you if I don't know what the person's doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started as this position for my family's company so my brother calls me in 2014. I had gone to I got my degree in marketing from Stephen F Austin here in Nacogdoches, texas. Got my degree, went to work for Coca-Cola, our local Coca-Cola bottling plant. So I got to work with like Monster Energy and Dr Pepper and Big Red and Coca-Cola. But I also had to work with things things for those of you that remember a full throttle energy Um, I had to work with NOS energy and uh, vitamin water in East Texas. I had to work with some unique things that taught me a lot. So I was always having these conversations with my brother.
Speaker 2:Well, my dad had just bought into a marketing company bought, bought, like signed up with a marketing company and I was doing all of his content writing at the time. So this marketing company would say, hey, we need a newsletter, write all of your content for me. So to Joe's question here what revenue? We were at $3 million when my brother called me and said we're about to hit the gas and I need somebody to come in and focus on building our brand, organizing our marketing strategy like working through co-op dollars, employee retention and recruitment and just overall community involvement which fell under the brand. So I came on to Lemon Seed and not that I'm the sole person that drove McWilliams to the place that it got and is, but it was the combination of dedicated and intentional marketing from all facets and I didn't get pulled all these different directions.
Speaker 2:So I'm like Riley here Nobody wanted me on the phone. I would have been good on the phone but, honestly, your internal marketers they should have, if you do disk profile to me, they either need to have a high I or maybe a C personality. It just depends on what you need. So I have a very high I and negligible C. Like C don't even register on the crystal level there. But I knew that I could get us out in the community, I could be creative. I could do all these things. I could keep employees and recruit new ones. My brother and I created the Home Service Academy where we were bringing people on green off the street and getting them in their own van in eight weeks.
Speaker 2:Through putting the right people in the right places and so that community market, the internal marketing position, could be run the gamut right. So Riley, who's on the call here, does this for LCS out of Indy and works with Lemon Seed very closely. So what I love about Riley and what he does is he has his thumb on the pulse of LCS Like he lives in it every single day. So when he's communicating with Lemon Seed, he brings like the actuals to the table. Hey, we want to redo this. We want to do this. What do y'all think about this? And it's a great like collaborative relationship, but I have another contractor who has a CSR that they've delegated to be in charge of marketing.
Speaker 3:And that's worse than making the marketing manager a CSR. In my opinion, that's even worse.
Speaker 2:Well, setting them up for failure. So I really ask, I ask the contractor every single time. So you're at whatever 3 million, 2 million, whatever that is. So if you live like me in East Texas, internal marketers that are young, like out of school and just like really good personalities, very driven, you actually. They're pretty affordable because they're hungry for marketing roles, right, so they're not, you know, but they also are going to be very green. So you have to give them access to the vendors and they have to understand what they're doing and keep everything going.
Speaker 2:But internal marketers can really do a whole paradigm shift for you in your business, especially if you're looking for someone that intentionally, every single day, their goal is brand awareness, employee recruitment and retention, brand loyalty, existing customers, answering reviews. I mean, listen, I can fill a whole day. When Renee got ready to hire Riley over there at LCS, she and I had long conversations about what was she really going to give up control over? Like, are you really going to give up control? Are you going to you know and it was a really good conversation, but to Eric's point here like deciding that their job doesn't have enough value to where? Okay, you know what, I need them to answer the phone. Nothing wrong with being a CSR.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's not what they were hired to do, and so you need to let marketers be marketers if they're designed, if they're meant to be a marketer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is a great. This is a great conversation. I'm actually curious.
Speaker 2:This is a great conversation. I'm actually curious. I guess Riley probably knows, but then I'd also be curious, crystal, on your take on this. At what point do you Riley? So LCS was a little bit above this when they brought on Riley, but I would really, I'm telling you $3 million. So here's, I call them the humps, if you will. So that hump to get to a million, right, like you're busting your butt to get to a million. And then that next hump that I think most contractors are trying to get to is three and then five and then eight and then ten. You know, like that, you know, because you have to do different things to get over those humps, right. So that's why I think, when you're trying to go from three million to anything else, it's like you need intentional attention on everything and as a contractor. That's why, let me see, uses this.
Speaker 2:We use two alliterations or two examples all the time. One is how full is your plate? So, if on, and so Joe was at 5 million. So, as you can see, like it's in that wheelhouse there. So if your plate is full of everything, so you're trying to price equipment, you're trying to deal with benefits, you're trying to deal with training as an owner. Marketing is one of those things that if you're really good at it, then you need to offload something else. Right, hire a training manager. But you need to look at your plate or the hats that you have on and decide where you actually as an owner operator. Where do you fit correctly and where do you want to fit? Now I have some people that think they need to be the marketing, and I'm like you're in your own way, um uh. But to Joe's point you know, between three to 5 million is probably the sweet spot there, because that's when it takes intentionality and that's when you need to do it Now, mick Williams, we have a little bit of a different strategy.
Speaker 2:Anytime we open a new brick and mortar location within the first year or so or so oh, he said he should have done it sooner within the first year or so of being um open, we're hiring a community marketer, but their sole job is again that employee, the employees at that at that brick and mortar that work there. We call it loving on them. Welcome to east texas. Just, you know, patting them on the back and doing good things for them, but also just go into the community and represent who we are as a company and as a family. And so, like right now there's like five of them and people are like five I'm like one per brick and mortar for the most part, unless it's really close to another brick and mortar and one person can kind of cover both areas. But if it has its own chamber, odds are we've got a person.
Speaker 2:That's working that, but I love to talk to this and I'll be honest, a little sneak peek. Lemon Seed is launching some cool stuff in January around internal marketers and so I hope everybody's going to kind of watch for that. Our conference is going to be coming up at the end of January and we're going to be releasing some cool stuff that we're going to be doing and internal marketers are really going to enjoy those. No, joe, all of our community market, joe ask, are those part-time employees? Ours are full-time employees. But again, this is not an overly and when I say educated marketing, specific a bunch of experience. These are, most of the time, just really connected people in the market that like to shake hands, kiss babies, pet dogs, and then they follow the marketing strategy that the marketing director puts out. So it's more the marketing directors handling all branches for McWilliams and kind of letting them know what's coming up. Our community marketers are truly for culture and for brand awareness in the market, for sure. No, that's a good one, eric. That was a good question.
Speaker 3:That's a tough one too. I always wonder, and I feel like everyone has different answers or different takes on this, but I definitely tend to agree. I think that $3 to $5 million mark is a good one, because I see a lot of folks get stuck in that three to five million mark and so at some point in that because you can get zero to three million without an internal marketer I've seen people get zero to three without hiring a marketing agency. I've seen people get zero to three just by hustling and selling.
Speaker 2:Are the wages a part of the marketing spend? So I'm going to tell you, this is also a very debatable question. What did you think about that question, Eric?
Speaker 3:Maybe towards the marketing budget. Yeah, Because if I put them in overhead, like if I just if I didn't put them in there, then I would be tempted to like add them into the phones or something else. If they're a part of my marketing budget, then I'm going to make sure that, like you know, come hell or high water, they're marketing for the business.
Speaker 2:Well, and if they're responsible for that budget and the performance you know. So that's why I say this job needs to be curated to what you're hiring them for, right. So it's very generic for you to say, oh Crystal, what did you do? What I did at McWilliams is probably even it's even different than what Riley does at LCS. Honestly, it's a little different. And so for us it was an overhead position. But because it I was an overhead position because mainly I was dealing with a multitude. So marketing was my main goal, but also was culture. So I helped with other things like recruitment and retaining and things like that.
Speaker 2:But what was funny is when I got a car, when we bought a car, I wrapped. Oh what did I drive A Nissan Rogue. We wrapped it and he was like, hey, if we want to get another, like I want to get a trailer Long story I was always asking for money. He was like that's got to come out of the marketing budget. So it was interesting how we kind of function that.
Speaker 2:But you're hiring someone just for marketing. You could definitely go into your marketing spend, but again most of you are going to be like, okay, well, I'm not spending enough. Now this whole person takes up all my marketing budget. Well, that won't work. That won't work because this person is not a traditional lead gen. Most of the time they're not an outbound dialer, right. They're, you know, organizing all of your vendors. They're talking through creative like they're. They're doing a lot of things. So it definitely could be a combination of things, uh, just depending on what you actually write their job description to include, and so I always think that's an important, important thing.
Speaker 2:One common thread that I've kind of heard today is you know the intentionality and the definition of things, and so that's one of our biggest points here is context, right. So I ask a lot of questions. So, when you see people get on social media, this company grew by 150%, okay, yes, from 300,000. So they didn't grow 150% when they were at 10 million, right. So you really have to put everything in context. So it's not that we don't want to celebrate the 150 growth. That is wonderful way to go, keep going. But at the other side, like people are like I'm doing something wrong, and I'm like you're not, you're, you're doing everything right, you're, you're just your revenue is much higher and so it's a lot harder. You, you're talking about millions, they're talking about $20,000.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They needed to sell one system, you need to sell a hundred, you know. So it's drastically different, but for sure. So I love the conversation about the internal marketing budget getting those spends. So just a really quick recap a little bit. Number one mistake we see no strategy. The bunch of vendors doing a bunch of things, but no real strategy. Facebook being your source of truth Let us all pray for that the budget spend being less than you know what is needed to hit your revenue goals. So I'm coming out of the gate with recommending an eight to 10% spend and then 12 if you're really trying to grow Off your goal.
Speaker 2:Eric made a good point off your revenue goal, not what you did last year, knowing your numbers. And listen, any of y'all that have been around this industry very long or in a part of a best practice group, they don't even let you out. You are in contractor prison until you start knowing those KPIs. So don't be that guy, right, don't be that girl. Know your KPIs. And then Eric brought up this internal marketer issue overuse or underutilization of that role or lack of role, clarity of what that role is intended to do. This definitely could be a part time role. It's all about the intent and how you write it and how you clarify the role Um, but and Lemon Seed works alongside um internal marketers to help make sure they have a trusted source of collaboration and keeping their directions moving forward and a source of their marketing truth.
Speaker 2:We have no like Lemon Seed. I've prided myself on this. Now, listen, I might change my mind at any point, but right now I have no, no, let me use this word allegiance, and so that's partially true, but I am so I will normally say these are three to four good digital vendors that we work with, that our clients are seeing success with, and I try to let the contractor connect with who they feel is the right one for them, because I might love this company for this type of contractor, and so Limit Seed is designed to help people look up and look around Like Service Nation. I feel like it's a buffet, right, so like here's a buffet of all these people that do great things. You look over here at Nextar and they're like this is the Nextar way, praxis, this is the Praxis way, and so there's some unique things that go on.
Speaker 2:Joe did bring up another good point here, and you should have a higher percentage rate if you're greenfielding a new location. That's what I mentioned to y'all earlier. I'm rolling 12% deep when we're opening a new on a million dollar budget, and so a lot of people are before I've sold the first thing. That's also. Very people are like well, I just need to get some leads in and then I'll have cash. The amount of people that start a business with no money also drives me nuts.
Speaker 3:This could be section mistake 4A, people starting a business. And I'm sorry I'll go out here and say it. I can start a business in any industry tomorrow and I could be a major problem for my competitors.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'll say that all the time.
Speaker 3:I could go start a chiropractor's office and I don't know anything. I would get a chiropractor and I would be a problem for the next chiropractor down the street. I could start a pest control company and I'd be a problem Because the amount of people that start a business and then they say I'm going to do this and I'm going to go do this for me and then they completely just get lazy on it yeah, it drives me nuts. Look, there is in my phone, let's go ahead. Let's look and see this right here. I have 8,500. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I've merged them recently.
Speaker 3:I have 2,200 contacts in my phone. These aren't just random phone numbers that I've. Never those 2,200 contacts have gotten into my phone at some point because someone gave me their number. I would blast every single one of them and just be like hey, remember me. We might not have talked in a while, but I started a new business and it'd be cool if you'd support me at the least maybe like my Facebook page. Yeah, I guarantee I could make a million dollars the first year.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm telling you, my brother and I said this to someone the other day. I said, listen, once you learn the structure of marketing, you could go get the leads. Now, learning the operational backside of things is different, right, so like for the pest control company, for example, we're kind of doing double duty because we we bought a company with a guy that's helping us guide through, like the actual work of pest control.
Speaker 2:But listen, building a brand and getting leads is not going to be our issue yeah and I'm you come out of nowhere but so many people start just broke and I'm not hating on that Like there's a lot of power and coming. You know, I was at the bottom, now I'm here, kind of vibe, but it's the long road. It's the long road to go. Line of credit or whatever you're going to do to build an actual marketing strategy that is a combination of your brand and your digital and your socials and whatever else you're going to do yard signs or billboards or radio, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:um, you will see how quickly you overtake the competition yeah, and I'm like listen uh, in our local Facebook group the other day, this company got on there and they do inflatables, inflatables, and they list. They made a post blaming the community for not supporting them. And they're like you, um, you guys like we knew this was a need, but y'all don't support us. And like, if y'all want us to stay in business, and I was like do you not want to stay in business, ma'am? Like this is the first time you've made a post on your page in six months. The name of your company is Backyard Inflatables. So I mean, which is the name of? Like all these other companies? And they get mad. They're like y'all only use this other company because of who they are. And I'm like no, go look at your web presence and your branding presence.
Speaker 2:This company donated 10 bouncy houses to our um local. Like balloon, we had a little balloon festival and so they had signs everywhere that they had donated these bouncy houses. Like you're, you've not taken any opportunity. It is not the field of dreams. If you build it, they will not come only from that. They will not. You know, branding has to be a priority. And if you don't understand it, good news People at Lemon Seed do, but they don't, eric. I'm telling you, their hardest thing to do is write the sentence, write the check for a branding play. They're like, oh gosh, my leads just aren't coming in. And I'm like, listen, this is a long-term strategy. We have a short-term strategy, but yeah, that.
Speaker 2:And then we had a local company the other day posting like just the owner and this is an HVAC company gets on there and he's like stop using the expensive guys and use me, I can get this. And people were commenting like, yeah, thumbs up, thumbs up. And I'm like this is please don't ever tag me. How many times have y'all seen the Facebook post who's a good digital company? Who's a good branding company? And I'm like, lord, help me.
Speaker 2:Because they're going to say that's not going to cost me an arm and a leg. Not me, sir, because what that is screaming to me is that that's not the clients that you want as an agent. You don't want. You want clients that want to invest in good products. Hardly any of you on here sell janky products, but I'm telling you I will get riled up about, um, the importance of what we get, what you pay for, but also just a good understanding of building a brand and having money to build that brand up front and if you have zero dollars, I would be killing the social media game every single day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, if I had. Yeah, I just think some people like I saw I saw that post yesterday. I think you replied to my comment. The person was talking about imposter syndrome, yes, and I was like the only way out is through Get off your ass. Sorry, I'm getting riled up. The only way out is through. You got to get up and just go force yourself. Go force yourself to like it until it happens.
Speaker 3:And it's like, yeah, if I got $0, I am getting up at 8 o'clock and I'm going to every single house or every single door that I can find, or I'm texting every single person that I know, or I'm going to go stand out in front of the Walmart with the Salvation Army ringing the bell at Christmas, but also handing out my business cards on the side. I'm going to be doing whatever it takes to get a contact. And some people just they get imposter syndrome because they say I'm a business owner, but then they don't do the steps necessary, they don't do the baseline requirements necessary, so then they feel like, well, I'm a fraud because I'm not actually running a real business.
Speaker 2:I saw a quote the other day that said your ambition is not going to work harder for you than your hard work. And I was like your want to be the top company is not enough to get you to be the top company. You've got to put in the work. You've got to put it. That's why, like I'm telling you, when community marketers come to work at McWilliams, I'm like now listen, this job is not for the weak, like we're. This is we're busy. We are washing tablecloths, we are making sure trucks are. Like you're babysitting people, you're turning in deadlines. Like it is busy in a whole different way because our job is to be where the people are, because that's how we build companies. Right, that's how we build them Literally.
Speaker 2:Another analogy that I like to use is this cake analogy. And so, like my husband makes this delicious seven up cake and it's so good and everyone loves it, um, but if you were to ask me for a piece of that cake, I'm not going to hand you the cake flour that he uses. I'm not going to be like here you go, here's a cup of cake flour. It takes the flour and the eggs and the butter and the vanilla flavoring and the lime zest and all the cool things that he uses cooked together at perfection to come out with a solid. Then I can put all the icing and everything I want to put on top of it and make it beautiful even more. But at the end of the day it's the same way when we're building a foundational company is we have to make people know who we are. Then we can add on all kinds of cool stuff, start doing direct mail and all those things, but at the end of the day, do people even know who you are or what you stand for?
Speaker 3:yeah, and like and within making that cake wouldn't? I don't think anyone would ever expect to think well, I don't need the eggs right now, I can add the eggs later, so I'll withhold the eggs for now. I'll just do the lemon. It's not going to come out. The same, right, right, it's the same way when people reach out Well, I want a new website, but I don't need this.
Speaker 3:I don't need seo I don't, yeah, I don't need seo right now and I want to um like. So they'll just they'll start telling this like I need this or I don't. I do need this, I don't need that, I do need this. It's like hey, do you want this seven up cake or do you want something different? Because if you want my seven up cake, you're getting the eggs. I'm putting the eggs in in the butter and all the different things inside of it to make sure that you get this cake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's so funny. I was talking to this client the other day and we were getting ready to rebrand them. So you know, we have all these brands that we're doing right now. Our branding side of our business has really taken off and we were looking through some stuff and I was like, okay, this is what we do next. And he's like, well, I think I'm just going to hold onto it for a little bit and then I'll launch it, like maybe in January. So I was like okay.
Speaker 2:So I was like so, just so you know, what we are going to do between now and January is we're going to continue to build a brand that you're about to get rid of, um, so we're going to spend a lot of money, like we need to be changed, we need to change all the graphics inside of service titan. We need to do all these things, but you want to wait till january, and not even for a good reason, like not for a reason that was, in my world, valid, like there was just, and I'm like you're, you're getting off course here, um, or they only. This is the crazy things. I want a new brand, but I don't want to really wrap all my vehicles. I'm going to wrap one vehicle so I'm like, okay, and you're going to drive around with this janky logo for a while and not these, the new ones, right? So that's another one.
Speaker 2:So I wrote down uh, the seventh mistake that we see people making is that imposter syndrome holding you back but also like not trusting. I call it the magic sauce. Yeah, your contractors like, are your vendors contractors? Not trusting the vendors? Secret sauce to what makes their product good? They want to pick and choose what they want. So not trusting the secret sauce? Cause, listen, you have I mean rival has a a secret sauce. What they do specifically that helps their clients, and you might go to the next one, and there's secret sauce is different. I'm going to ask one more question, uh, before we get off, because it's a very hot topic. I'm actually doing a webinar in a couple of weeks about this. Um, I want to just mention, because I can't help it, ai, and what do we feel like we should be doing as contractors right now?
Speaker 2:I love ai this, is so me and you can both get canceled somehow ai was such a good basketball player.
Speaker 3:Uh, it was truly a shame that ai's career okay. Oh, we're not talking about alan iverson, okay that would be an easier topic. Yeah, ai was a great basketball player, though you know, when I was a kid, ai, we were talking about Allen Iverson, and now it's everything else. I hope that someone watching just appreciated that joke.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Because I've been holding on to that one for a while.
Speaker 1:I'll make sure to highlight it.
Speaker 3:I think that AI should multiply efforts, not replace them.
Speaker 3:And I think that a lot of people are trying to force a square peg into a round hole with AI, where they're like what can we do? What can we do? What can we do? And they're trying to force it to replace things, rather than using it to just multiply what they're already doing and make them more efficient. And so when folks say, how can I be using AI, the answer is usually I don't know, because there's probably different areas of your business that you could be using it for that you're not, but I think using it for phones, as long as there's some type of voice greeting that lets them know they're talking to AI.
Speaker 3:I think that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people, especially after hours. I think that that alone, that small thing right there, opens up so much opportunity for contractors to have some type of after hours voice assistant for answering the phones. Now you can answer the phones 24-7 on LSA. Now you can answer them 24-7 on GBP, because we know that the map pack is not going to show you if your hours are closed. I mean they might, but it's very unlikely. So that alone could be like a great first step for folks. But I think you know, finding the things where you're not efficient and then complementing it with AI, but continuing to use your human brain for stuff is what I would recommend for most folks. It's just, it's tough because it's different for everyone. Yes, yes, I agree. So this is what I would recommend for most folks.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's tough because it's different for everyone. Yes, yes, I agree. So this is what I've learned. And listen, I love maybe I'm the odd man out, but I love the conversation that's going on with AI right now, because I think it just makes everybody at least think through it. So kudos to those who have bought in and are going excuse my language are like balls to the wall right. So kudos to those people that are like running with it, and then kudos to the people that I love this statement, like I wrote it down, like multiplying our efforts, not replacing our efforts. So I actually really enjoyed the friendly banter Now people get super hateful, but the friendly banter of listen.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, do I think AI is coming? Oh, it's here. It's not coming, it's here. The end of the day, do I think AI is coming? Oh, it's here. It's not coming. It's here, and I do think that we will have to adapt, probably sooner than later, of utilizing it better. But I also think that sometimes it's a little scary and overwhelming to the average person, and so sometimes you can go, you can slide too hard and get detrimental. Then people are just going to shut down anyway.
Speaker 2:A couple of things that I wrote down love the phones, things but those of you that are just trying to figure out how to use it in your business. There is a difference in artificial intelligence and automations. Okay, automations, like you know that the uh, making sure that things are happening without a human having to trigger things that's automation, that's necessarily AI, and so that's a unique thing. Or partnering AI with automations is like super cool too. But to your points like quick speed to lead style things like knowing that you're automatically going to send a text or you're going to answer all these leads, you're going to respond to reviews there's some cool things out there right now that, honestly, are so tasky, it's my word. They literally are taking those things off of your plate so that you can do more impactful things for your business. That's where I love AI.
Speaker 2:For those of you that are content creators like even creating slideshows, helping you with social media content, helping you with email content those are great, but I don't know about you, eric. I can identify a chat GPT. Written email is crazy. Joe just mentioned on here ordering equipment when it's sold, taking away tasks. So, again, these are the more advanced you get with the automations and the AI side of this happens, then I want this to happen like this. That's where you can start getting behind people that are doing task driven automations, about definitely moving the needle off of task driven things. That maybe opens up time for an install coordinator or a CSR or a dispatcher. And then I was. Chuck just came on here and said what's your thoughts about getting prices online like contractor commerce?
Speaker 3:Love it. I think everyone should be doing it.
Speaker 2:I do too. So, chuck, I'm going to give you this thought that I have about this. So, right now, again, if you don't, if you're not this type of adopter, this may not resonate with you. But one of the things I just read and, eric, maybe he can correct me, but I saw where people were saying when people say, what's the average cost of an HVAC, of a new heating and air conditioning systems in East Texas, right, if you have pricing on your website? Now, from what I read, you actually have pricing. It's showing that you can actually answer the question. So Google's actually utilizing just you having those, even those basic prices on your site as being able to answer the question. So it's reading well or crawling well.
Speaker 2:But the biggest mistakes that I see people making is they launch Contractor Commerce specifically. Fantastic company, lisa and her team over there with Paul, wonderful people at Contractor Commerce but people just launch it and then they never do anything with it. Yeah, so they never drive like they don't use it on social media like click here thinking about getting a new system, click here to see what your pricing is, or using it to sell filters or memberships or anything like that. Um, and like stephanie postel over at anchor. They did some cool stuff with contractor commerce on like some actual coupon-style stuff. So what are your thoughts on that, from a digital perspective, for sure?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I think that a lot of folks need to realize that Contractor Commerce and any of these other ones in and of itself does not drive leads to your business. You still have to drive the lead to the website, but if you have that pricing transparency online and your marketing and your messaging, it just removes the barrier. And so to Joe's point earlier about taking away a task from someone else. Think about if the person goes online to get the price and then they book the call. There's no price objection. At that point they already know what they're getting themselves into from a pricing perspective. So it makes the lead. Maybe the leads that you get through a tool like that are less, but the qualification and the quality of those leads are much higher. Yeah, and you know I was thinking back. I was actually thinking about this on the flight home from Home Service Freedom earlier or towards the end of last week on Friday.
Speaker 3:I remember in 2019, when the thought of online scheduling was just the craziest thought in the world. I remember I met Schedule Engine in 2020 and I was like this is brilliant. And then I was like talking to clients about it and our clients were like no, I would never want someone to be able to book their own service online, and there was so much pushback. But now that conversation is not happening anymore. It's just like, if you're, if I have a website, I need an online scheduler. Like it's just, it's a, it's a part. It's like almost eating, like having a contact form, it's like you got to have a scheduler. But but four or five years ago it was the most polarizing topic in the trades was like do I have a scheduler or do I don't? And I feel like we're facing that same thing right now with pricing, with online pricing.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and I'll be honest, like you know, you sit back and now you think, why would we not adapt ourselves to be able to allow online scheduling? I still deal with contractors who are like online scheduling, like well, what do I do? And I'm like you freaking, run the call. You run the call, you let them book and then you go figure out. Your job is to figure out how you can service that client. You are not doing people a favor by servicing their air conditioner. You need to switch your brain. You are thankful for every lead that comes through. Book the lead, book it and then figure it out.
Speaker 2:And then Joe brings up a good point about online pricing. So, eric, I love this idea. Like this should not be as hard as it is for contractors to. They're just giving so much noise, like to Chuck's point, there's so much noise out there. There's ways to protect yourselves on there by saying, like so in East Texas, right?
Speaker 2:So we're trying to get up in an attic, so what if it's difficult to access, right? So what do we do? The client doesn't know. What if they undersize their home? What if they need duct work? What if they need? Okay, then you put on there the caveat upon inspection, you know, upon verification, right, and then listen. Worst case scenario is you sell a system online and then again you go figure it out by saying, hey, now that we've looked, you see how we can't get an indoor unit up these stairs into your attic. I'm going to have to cut a hole or I'm going to have to do this. Did you know that you can also roll this new ductwork into your financing, right? So this is opportunities. We're looking for opportunities, and so anything that is reaching, in my opinion, anything that is reaching different audiences for you. So online scheduling, online buying things like that, I would be all over, and then I'll figure it out on the back, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I always say consumer ignorance causes commoditization. So if they don't find the pricing from you, they're going to find the pricing from Angie's List or HomeAdvisor. Or worse, they're going to go find the pricing from Angie's List or HomeAdvisor. Or worse, they're going to go find the pricing on Walmart or Home Depot.
Speaker 2:Amazon.
Speaker 3:They're going to go say well, why is it $3,500 for this 40-gallon water heater? I can get it at Home Depot for $600. Angie's List told me the average HVAC replacement is $6,500. Why are you $18,500? If you're not educating the people, then that GPT is going to educate them based on whatever they can find. Send with Google. They're going to educate them based on what they can find and I don't think anyone's going to like the result of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no. I put up Gail's comment here on the screen. You add a disclaimer that it's an estimate only based on information provided and must be confirmed on site. And then you book the selling, tech or comfort advisor to go out there. Like again, this is number one for online selling. We have to tell people right, because the action of actually having it on your website does not really. It is what's the word I want to use here, eric.
Speaker 2:It is good for people searching those things. You want to have it on your website, but as far as driving people to your site, you have to talk about it somewhere and drive people you know to that section. Social media is the easiest thing to use and link it. They're doing some unique like solve a problem for the homeowner and say, hey, if you want to know, click here. Um, without being overly salesy, but you know Gil, I know Gil and she does a great job at what she does because she's managing multiple locations and multiple. You know different markets and things like that. But at the end of the day, like there are some things that would work in any market. You just have to have the right strategy and implementation plan around that. So love the online pricing. Love it, just work through it and work through it. Utilize your vendor partner to really help you there.
Speaker 2:So Joe said to Eric's point that's why we have to adopt AI in our business. We have to try to be more affordable. I do think that pricing is going to become more and more of a deciding factor because, honestly and I just think that there are more contractors picking up on how to used to. So, back in 2014, we were one of the only people with wrapped vans. We were one of the only people with a optimized website, one of the only people with online booking. Well, now, as that becomes the norm, you have to pivot in other ways, and so now, maybe AI being quicker or whatever that looks like for you.
Speaker 2:So we ended up with nine things. Number one no strategy. Number two Facebook is your source of truth. Number three budget spend not enough most of you. Number four knowing your KPIs. Number five internal marketers. How you overuse or underutilize them in the right roles. Role clarity for them.
Speaker 2:Starting a business and not having the cash, or trying to go to the next level and not figuring out how to pay for it? Imposter syndrome holding you back from actually growing your business, because you're just the only way to get over it is to go through it. I think that's your comment, right, eric? Yeah, right. And then not trusting the secret sauce of your vendors and trying to pick and choose what you use with them. And then AI like multiply your efforts not really replace something potentially, but at least I think we need to start paying attention to what's going on and utilizing it for things to help us become more efficient and, in turn, that gives us more opportunities to affect our gross margins and how we're going to market. So, guys, eric, one more time. If people wanted to get in contact with you, eric, what's the best way to reach out to you at Rival Digital?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can connect with you here on Facebook. Just Eric Thomas, on Facebook or rivaldigitalcom. Either way is cool. I hang out on Facebook or rivaldigitalcom, you know, either way is cool. I hang out on Facebook, probably more than I should. So I feel like it's like it stays up on like this side, like laptop over here. So if you message me at any point in the day, there's a good chance I'm going to message you back.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, gotcha. And then, of course, limit Seed Marketing. We can help you build a brand. We can help you build social media plans. We can help you build a strategy. Strategies are one of our favorite things to do is how do we help you bring all of your marketing budget together to really drive the company forward? So thanks to all of you that joined us. Eric and I loved being able to have a reason to get on the call and talk today, so we hope everyone has a good day. Thanks for sipping lemonade with us in R.